1UZ-FE Pros and Cons

[jibbby]

Thanks again for the very minor and really insignificant corrections...

Oh Cribbs, my facts are just a little skewed, so what... Sorry I got the back half of the lettering wrong "2JZ-GTE"...My bad... I am fully aware that ths motor comes out of the 93-98 Supra TT made and designed by Toyota... I am also aware of the full potential of the motor...I almost bought one for $20,000 a few years back.....

Let me ask you this Cribbs?...If both motors are made from the same cast iron pistons, forged cranks, and forged powder rods why is it that the 2JZ-GTE can handle 1000hp at stock with out failure and the 1uz-fe only half that amount? Something is a miss, no?....

PS. I promise you I am not on somking crack either!!!!:439:

 

[cribbj]

The cast iron block of the 2JZ certainly helps, and the massive 7 mains don't hurt either. Squirters on the undersides of the pistons, etc. Toyota designed in lots of little things to make the 2JZ a powerhouse.

But who says the 1UZ can only handle 500 BHP? We're just now taking baby steps with this motor, and falling a few times in the process, just as we did in the late 90's with the 2JZ-GTE. Even in 2000, many of us thought we were pretty hot stuff with our 400 RWHP cars. Nobody back then would have dreamed 2JZ-GTE's would be putting out 1600 FWHP with 44 lbs of boost!

I think the 1UZ has lots going for it, for starters, a full litre more displacement than the 2JZ, a shorter crank, and block which help rigidity, even though the block is aluminum (plus the 6-bolt mains help the block rigidity a bunch). It's a nice, compact configuration and very lightweight. Even if the 1UZ doesn't ever make the peak HP that the 2JZ does, it'll still have its place for lightweight applications, or those that need a bit more grunt getting launched than the 2JZ can give (without nitrous, 2 step, launch control, etc.)

But shoot, let's wait & see what these 1UZ's are doing in another 10 years before we say they can't keep up with the 2JZ's.

 

[jibbby]

Well, I can say I have done alot of research on the 1uz-fe motors over the last 5 or so years and some have reported failure at or around the 500whp mark... As you are aware the rods and pistons are the failing points of these motors, then maybe the crank...that is why so many go with the forgies once boosting for huge power... I tend to think people switch out to the Ross pistons, etc and or other forgies prematurely without giving the stock internals there fair due... Like you said the potential limits of the stock 1uz-fe motors are not carved in stone just yet...

Cribbs, I may not be as keen as you on the 2JZ's but these 1uz-fe motors I do know like the back of my hand....

Oh and thanks for being polite in the last thread..

Your over all knowledge of these motors are very impressive and that I won't deny...

 

[bango]

The crank on the 1Uz-fe is second to none,iv heard of insane HP from the Standard crank..

 

[Toysrme]

Aristo

Personally. While the 2jz-gte deserves it's reputation, it's overhyped stock. They're 600bhp daily driven engines Take those pistons & plop them in the other good engines & you'd have multiple engine families that would be happy daily driving around @ 600bhp.
3,4,5vz-fe
1,2,4gr-fse's
All the UZ engines...
Probably all the UR engines...
I ran out of v6 & v8 engine families...

Supra = super happy OEM piston installation.




If the GE heads were good in the first place, then they wouldn't have been phased out for the fe heads which morphed into the current bigtime fse heads??? Which, while are more related to fe heads, have grown into valve angles inbetween the normal FE v GE valve angles.
The valve angles started in the 70*'s back in the day on the SOHC engines. 50*'s on 4a-ge heads, shrunk down to 45* on the jz-ge head's. 3s-ge heads down to 44.5*, 2zz-ge's down yet again to 43*.
Notice a pattern?
Compair this with old school fe heads... They were once very long angle. 22.5* yet they've grown to 27, 28*, now 33 to 35* on the more modern FE heads.
Notice a pattern?






I'd rather rock an FE head, or a newer fse one. The only big differances in older FE VS GE power are the cams & the stock porting. Port an FE head, put in a cam that won't almost gaurenteed to be 225-230* of duration with almost no overlap (0-4* max). And you've got a better engine (until the GE heads are ported out & the cams changed)
FE heads are lighter and much more compact.

You also get easy access to nice tall intake ports
FSE ftw:

5s-fe camry/celica/mr2 ported & cammed > 3s-ge stock / ported & cammed = 5s/3s-ge hybrid, ported & cammed.
The 92-93 3vz-fe 3.0L dohc v6 was detuned 15bhp & 14-ft-lbs of torque by taking out 5-7.5* of ignition timing in the programming & setting it to never run leaner than 10.0:1 in a 100% stock configuration. The 2jz-ge get's it's first little power update & they *magically* find the missing power. Toyota musta been embarrassed the camry's were outrunning the cressida's & arista's.












It's the same parts catolog with a different cam lobe, and smaller porting. What's the differance in a 3vz-fe piston, and a 2jz-ge piston? Not alot, they can drop in for each other. LoL!
And the N/A jz-ge engines were way over-hyped. Heavy, slow revving, and the v6 camry platform was embarrasingly quicker than the i6's. Go take a look at Camry/ES VS the GS300/350's.
******* 2007 Lexus GS 350 RWD 5.7s 14.2
2007 Lexus ES 350 6.2 14.6
*******2006 Lexus GS 300 RWD 6.8 15.4
2004 Lexus ES 330 7.2 15.5
1998 Lexus GS 300 7.6 15.7
1998 Toyota Camry LE V-6 (auto) 7.8 15.9
2004 Toyota Camry 3.3L v6 7.6 16.0
1994 Toyota Camry SE Coupe 8.1 16.1
1995 Toyota Camry LE V-6 (auto) 8.4 16.3
1992 Lexus ES 300 8.6 16.6
1994 Lexus ES 300 8.7 16.6
1993 Lexus GS 300 9.2 16.8
1994 Lexus GS 300 9.4 16.8
What happened when the GS ditched the 230bhp 3.0L 2jz-ge i6 for the 245bhp 3.0L 3gr-fse v6??? 0-60mph in 7.0s (Fastest of all 6 cylinder GS's to that point).

Was the 2jz-gte powered Aristo "the fastest production sedan based on 0-60mph time" at one point? No that would have been the much heavier GS400 with the 4.0L (5.4s 0-60)1uz-fe v8.















































Enough worrying over FE vs GE. Rock what you have. None of them suck...

 

[Toysrme]

Basically, not to be a fanboy of what I deal with alot. but if a 3vz-fe v6 came with 2jz-gte pistons. I see 0 reason why they wouldn't have been 600bhp daily driven engines. I won't say the rare one might make 1000bhp on a wimpy no load dyno, but I see no reason why they couldn't stretch another 50bhp past what we've done with some of them bone stock.

 

[Toysrme]

Oh, and when Toyota ditched the iron blocks for aluminum with iron liners. The cylinder walls became 20% stiffer. I read that in a Toyota SAE paper.
I think the biggest thing to it are the bearings & the regidity of the main bearing structure. Yall can argue who's crankcase is jammed in the best lmao! Some of Toyota's older iron block v6's have a massive 1/2" protector plate that encompasses the entire bottom end rotating assembly. Normally people have to pay big money aftermarket for that kinda stuff lol!

 

[jibbby]

To me all these motors are undersized and must be turbo'd or supercharged to see any real road power and that is the sad truth...To me that is a flaw....Up the liter size and then you have a real power house of a motor or motors...

Could you image a 6.0 or even a 7.4 liter sized alluminum block 1uz-fe or even a 5.0 or 6.0 liter sized 2JZ-GTE with it's two turbo's? Now that would be sick.....

Size does matter regardless of what the women say, and it's not all about the motion of the ocean...

Although boosting the small motors does have it's weight advantages if your swapping these 1uz-fe motors into light weight vehicles...

Toys you got that picture of your 2JZ's swap? It's Classic....


The reason I say bigger is better because I just can't forget that I got worked over by an older 5.0 mustang that was built but not boosted against my SC4 running the nitrous... Just a shame...

 

[cribbj]

Take those pistons & plop them in the other good engines & you'd have multiple engine families that would be happy daily driving around @ 600bhp.

There's nothing special about the 2JZ-GTE pistons. The OEM pistons are probably the weakest point in this motor and are the first components to be changed out when we start chasing power. The ring lands are too weak and have been known to break at just over BPU levels (400 RWHP and above). That's not a consistent figure, but there are enough examples of it to convince people it's not a good idea to keep stock pistons in the motor when cranking the boost up.

If the GE heads were good in the first place, then they wouldn't have been phased out for the fe heads which morphed into the current bigtime fse heads???

As everyone has seen, in the late 90's our favorite car company began morphing itself into a green, economy oriented company. These days, the performance image is just that, an image. How many current Toyota models do you see in performance shootouts against the WRX's, EVO's, etc.? The Toyota emphasis in the 21st century has been on low rpm torque and smoothness, not high rpm performance. That's why the "G" heads are gone.

Sadly, although Toyota are very active with their racing program, they seem not to have any interest in bringing fast, good looking street cars to market. According to Toyota's corporate people, their "performance" cars of the future will be hybrids. This is the sort of philosophy shift that leaves Supra and Lexus SC/GS owners out in the cold and looking at Nissan and BMW for our next "traditional" type sport coupes and sedans.

And the N/A jz-ge engines were way over-hyped. Heavy, slow revving, and the v6 camry platform was embarrasingly quicker than the i6's.

Agreed, the GE motor was a neutered pig of a motor. The 2JZ really needed turbos to make it come alive.

Was the 2jz-gte powered Aristo "the fastest production sedan based on 0-60mph time" at one point? No that would have been the much heavier GS400 with the 4.0L (5.4s 0-60)1uz-fe v8.

Hehehe, 0-60 times are all about torque, which the 1UZ has, and the 2JZ-GTE doesn't. What were the 1/4 mile times for those two?

Enough worrying over FE vs GE. Rock what you have. None of them suck...

Agreed, it's all in good fun, and both motors have their place. It's funny, but the one thing all 2JZ-GTE owners secretly crave is more torque/displacement (3.4 stroker motors are selling like hotcakes these days). And the thing 1UZ owners seem to crave is more HP (with turbo's or SC's). This is why more than a few of us Supra owners are pulling out our precious 2JZ-GTE's and putting in FI'd UZ's.

 

[mshawari1]

Thanks again for the very minor and really insignificant corrections...

Oh Cribbs, my facts are just a little skewed, so what... Sorry I got the back half of the lettering wrong "2JZ-GTE"...My bad... I am fully aware that ths motor comes out of the 93-98 Supra TT made and designed by Toyota... I am also aware of the full potential of the motor...I almost bought one for $20,000 a few years back.....

Let me ask you this Cribbs?...If both motors are made from the same cast iron pistons, forged cranks, and forged powder rods why is it that the 2JZ-GTE can handle 1000hp at stock with out failure and the 1uz-fe only half that amount? Something is a miss, no?....

PS. I promise you I am not on somking crack either!!!!:439:

20,000 USD !!!

Here is a dealer who have a complete swap 2JZ-GTE VVTI with auto tranyy and ECU for 3000 USD ..
If it is worth 20,000 I will buy it now !!​

 

[Pro]

c'mon guys - differences of opinions are encouraged but keep it civil eh?

1UZ pro - i like it. therefore it's good.

1UZ con - i like it. therefore it's going to cost me money.

 

[mshawari1]

c'mon guys - differences of opinions are encouraged but keep it civil eh?

1UZ pro - i like it. therefore it's good.

1UZ con - i like it. therefore it's going to cost me money.

I agree !!!!!!!!

 

[jibbby]

Mshawari - The $20,000 USD was for a complete 1996 Toyota Supra TT 6 speed manual CAR, it was clean too... Not just the engine, auto tranny and ECU for $3000 USD...

Read the post and comprehend please... Now let's keep it civil...

 

[jibbby]

More 1uz-fe information for the forum new comers to view and learn...

 

[striker]

agree on about everything said, you guys probably know tons more about the bigger displacement toy engines than me, but there's 2 thing that need saying on my acount.

1: everything discussed here depends very much on where you live

explination: when you're in the USA or such even 5.7L is the most normal thing ever on the road, in western europe that's about 3 cars worth of CC's
when I talk to people about the 1uz i'm building they look as if they're seing water cathcing fire: 4liter AND 2 superchargers.... they think I'm mad, everything over 2 liters and 4cyl is considered quite big and you'd probably only drive a 3L+ or v8 engine if it's a company car that also pays your fuel, or are stupidly rich or just plain stupid,
it's like noone sees the point in running that much engine so..... you get the point.

2: 0-60 times is about torque. NO WAY! at leats not about engine torque.

come over to here and I'll take you for a spin in three of exactly the same cars with three different engines, all around the same weight (100kg+/-)
I garantee you that, by the time we reach 60mls an hour your pants will be dirtiest with the lowest torque / highest revving engine.
and that with every three of those cars I'll outrun anything on 0-60 you can bring around that toyota ever made, non modified offcourse because my road engine is till now all stock 1600cc's.

there aint no better and certaily no cheaper way to go fast then to loose weight. bladiblabla....

I'll get my coat now!

grtz Thomas

 

[FrankMS]

1uzfe

Finally the 1uz-fe is a great Engine to swap into a lighter vehicule like a supra mk2 that is weighting around 1350 kg vs the 2000kg of the lexus that the engine is normally in..

Torque is needed to pull heavy weight,,, it's because that F1 don't have big torque numbers because they only weight around 800 kg..


FranK

 

[jibbby]

Only babies are bottle feed! :wink:

waaaahhh, waaaahhhh, waaaahhhh.....I want my mommie!!!!:baby:



(I over looked this post and had to laugh) HA HA HA.....

Supra90 was reffering to my Nitrous bottle comment...Good one....

 

[cribbj]

2: 0-60 times is about torque. NO WAY! at leats not about engine torque.

come over to here and I'll take you for a spin in three of exactly the same cars with three different engines, all around the same weight (100kg+/-)
I garantee you that, by the time we reach 60mls an hour your pants will be dirtiest with the lowest torque / highest revving engine.
and that with every three of those cars I'll outrun anything on 0-60 you can bring around that toyota ever made, non modified offcourse because my road engine is till now all stock 1600cc's.

there aint no better and certaily no cheaper way to go fast then to loose weight. bladiblabla....

grtz Thomas

Thomas, no flame from me, and I totally agree about the weight loss, but the context of the original discussion was trying to get two similar, heavy cars up to 60 mph. One with a "smaller" displacement turbo motor, and the other with a larger displacement naturally aspirated motor, and not surprisingly, the larger displacement NA motor won the 0-60 contest. Different gearing would make a big difference too, of course.

 

[striker]

on the gearing part: that's why I said not about "engine torque"

anyway funny thing is that from experience with very lightweight cars I would say the the smaller turboed engine would beat the big displacement engine. when at the kitcarclub over here we have a trackday with various types of motorsport, dragsprint, slalom, etc etc

we have to blokes who both drive Dax Rushes, ones equiped with a 410hp SBC, and the other one with a turbo busa with 310hp. ok there's a weight difference but not really big when looking at BHP per tonne.

I know that the SBC makes it's torque all below half the peak rpm of the busa, but has got nearly 1.5times more of it, both are geared to the same to topspeed via the diffs, of the line the SBC gains a few meters (4 or so) but after a second or so, the busa litteraly flies by in the fashion of a balistic missile being fired.

so in a lightweight comparison the contrary seems to be the case. which seems strange, but what would be interesting is what then would be better, a tricked out 9krpm NA 1uz like Erol has build or a 5.5krpm M112 blown 1uz...... I would say erol's would eat the low rpm wonder. so the torque doesn't make the 0-60 times at all, it's the weight of the vehicle that makes the difference, the heavier the more importand torque gets though to even get going.

build the engine that suits the car, don't have the wrong engine in the wrong car doing the wrong thing like a lot off people have, it's all within the purpose of the vehicle.
and the best pro of the 1uz is that it can do anything you want from it with pretty easy measure's because it's simply build like a brick, 300hp NA no problem 400hp turbo No problem.....
con is that with the comming of the GM LS series it's no longer the only option engine wise.

grtz Thomas

I'll really shut up now.

 

[jibbby]

Well look at the smaller 2 strokers vs. the bigger 4 strokers...

Example: Years back my Buddy had a 125cc 2 stroker motocross bike that weighed in half as much as my 500cc 4 stroker street bike...My friend and I raced on a paved road for a small wager...In my mind there was no way a 125cc dirt bike was going to beat out my 500cc street bike on pavement...I was on the street bike and that little high reving 2 stroker took me on the straight 0-50mph to my suprise.... Something definetely has to be said about a high reving motor... However after 50mph I muscled past the 125cc 2 stroker...

Gearing and weight does play a role as well...

As illustrated in the early post look at the 500hp 4.3L high reving Ferrari motor and compare that to 4.3L lower reving Toyota motors...It almost doubles the power output...

Life expectany is the draw back in higher reving motors...