The Fish

Discussion in 'Forced Induction Tech (Members Only)' started by kc95sc400, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Hey all,

    I would like this thread to be a place for shaing ideas / information on supercharging with the fish bracket.

    Little info on my car and my current plans.

    95 SC400. Current mods = BFI and front cat back exhaust.

    You can go here to see my maint list. http://clublexus.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2918696&postcount=107

    Headers and TQ. I have ordered the EKT headers and I've been waiting awhile for them now. They will hopefully ship soon. I will put in the TQ at the same time as the header install. Also will be replacing some OEM stuff while I'm at it.

    EKT headers.
    [​IMG]

    TQ.
    [​IMG]

    Trans cooler.
    [​IMG]

    Motor mounts, trans mount, main seal, trans front pump seal, egr pipe, and gaskets for all.
    [​IMG]

    Also, I bought Blizzy's diff from him. I have a used (40k, $250) Supra Torsen purchased from Titanmotorsports on the way.
    [​IMG]

    Ok, now that you all see that I am serious about ther performance of my car, on to the supercharger stuff.

    I have this on the way. Vortech V-9 F trim SQ CCW rotation. Bracket may need to be modified to fit the V-9, will have to wait and see.
    [​IMG]

    Planning on relocating the battery this weekend.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Have aquired a MAF adapter and Lextreme's T fitting for oil feed.
    [​IMG]

    Still many parts needed.
    Intercooler and piping.
    Bypass valve or BOV.
    Possible wastgate (alot of Ford guys are using them to regulate SC boost) or this valve. http://www.928m.com/parts/boostlimitervalve.php
    SC pulley.
    Idler pulleys. One smooth for fish bracket and one smooth to replace the top ribbed idler.
    Drive belt.
    Filter.
    Plus more I'm sure I'm missing.

    My current plan is to initially run 5-7psi.

    Later bumping to 9-12psi with a piggy back and the use of these.
    [​IMG]

    That's all I got for now, please respond and let me know what you all think of my plans so far. Share your fish ideas!

    Thanks,

    KC
     
  2. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    Just a couple comments on your battery relocation - make sure your cables are plenty big. I can't tell how large those Street Wires are, but I wouldn't do this with anything smaller than 1/0 welding cables, and make "sure" you have them well protected mechanically, and away from the exhaust pipes if you're planning on running them under the chassis to the back of the car.

    For a 12v electrical power system, the main cables should be as large as possible for carrying the heavy current demand and minimising the voltage drop, but of course when they're big, they become difficult to handle and route.

    Also if you're penetrating the trunk floor, make sure the holes are well bushed, so there's no possible way the cables' insulation can be cut, or worn off.

    Lastly, I'd make sure I had a big fusible link right at the battery. Something that won't blow when you crank the motor, but will if the system has a short circuit.

    The last thing you want is a 900CCA battery dumping all of its juice into a short circuit with the car chassis. That's a recipe for an exploding battery and/or a major car fire, especially if the battery is sitting right next to 15 gallons of fuel....
     
  3. Lextreme

    Lextreme Just call me "Lex"

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    One more comment about battery relocation. I did that few years ago and it was a nightmare. I took it to a audio shop and they relocated the battery for more. After it was done, the battery keep on dying. The battery wasnt being charged. They couldnt figure out why. After 4-6 tow truck calls because of dead battery in the middle of the road and after 2 years of hell. I finally figured out why my battery wasnt charging and was keeping dying. The connectors/cables were the problems. They just clip the connector on so the contact was bad and the battery wasnt being charged. So using a plier or a hammer to smash the copper connecto the hold the cable is NOT enough. What I did was to get was to torch the connector/cable and solder it. If you know how to solder copper pipes like your home plumbing. It is the exactly the same technique because the cable and the connectors are huge. They were gauge "0". Make sure you do that. Otherwise, you will be very friendly with your local tow truck drivers.
     
  4. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Hey guys, thanks for the input.

    The battery and ground cables are not street wires, they are 2 gauge battery cable. I plan to run the shortest distance possible, through the interior under the carpet. Battery will likely be located on the driver side.

    I already have a 5 gauge wire ran for my small amp / 10 inch sub setup. I am debating wether to use the 2 gauge on top of the 5 gauge or to use the 5 gauge to pull the 2 gauge through the firewall. The hardest part of running that wire was getting from under the hood to the cabin, the rest was gravy. My amp / sub will be located on the passenger side to, in theory, balance out the weight.

    All the car audio stuff is for body grounds, power and ground distibution, I will take pics.

    On the fuse, yes definately needed, still need to source. It bothers me that a "battery relocation kit" doesn't come with one. I'm sure their are a whole lot of people out there that don't know any better. Very real safety hazards without one in place.

    Lex, the ring terminals will be for re-wiring my stereo amp. I am glad you brought alternator charge up though, I will bring my DVOM home so I can test everything when I'm done.

    Couple of questions.

    What would be my best option to run those 315cc injectors?

    Would the Autotronic work well with my planned setup?

    Options for oil drain line?

    Thanks,

    KC
     
  5. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    KC, if you're going to have the battery in the back seat floorboard behind you, I hope you're not a smoker...... :shock: Even the normal "sealed" wet batteries put out some hydrogen when they're under charge.

    The only batteries I'm aware of that don't offgas are the "dry" cell technology, like the Odyssey, but contrary to what they advertise, their cranking abilities diminish quickly with age. I had an Odyssey in my setup, and the only way I'd do it again would be with a minimum of 2 and maybe 3 of them in parallel. They're so small, they just don't have enough reserve if your motor is stone cold on a winter morning, or it doesn't fire on the first crank.

    IMO, those #2 cables are going to be marginal for a remote battery install, and especially if you have an oversize alternator and lots of electronics. If you stay with those, you'll need to ensure that you have the absolute best terminations between the cables and the connectors. If any connection is the least bit dodgy, you'll be having David's problems, sooner. With our antiquated 12v automotive electrical systems, there's just no room for bad connections. When the industry finally switches to 48v in the future, that will relieve some of these problems.

    KC, not trying to be critical of what you're doing, just trying to save you some potential rework.
     
  6. Tempeheat

    Tempeheat New Member

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    Can't wait to get it

    I would like to install a supercharger in my BMW 1UZ. I'm going to offset the radiator and modify the hood hold down brace to allow it to fit. if I can't pull it off I would love to get a hold of SC430 or any other Lexus that would be worth doing it too. I would like a white SC430 with the red or tan interior.
    I just got the boost sensor and AFM for the Celica turbo swap 3sgte. I'll be driving it this week and then hand it over to my friend. I can't wait to hurt his feelings with my 1UZ BMW. :fest30:
     
  7. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    cribbj,

    Yes I am a smoker, and no no no no, in the trunk not the backseat!

    I'm not worried about gas. It's in the trunk. I will keep an eye on the battery to make sure it stays clean and doesn't leak. Don't want my trunk to rot from battery acid.

    Bigger cables are always better, but I think the 2 gauge will be enough. The most amperage ever seen in any vehicle is when starting, if the cables can handle starting, everything else is easy.

    No worries man. Main reasons I started this thread.... 1. To help me with info because I am a FI newb. 2. Feedback from all. 3. I was hoping others planning on using the fish would chime in. 4. Was hoping george might chime in.

    Wow Tempeheat, that sounds awsome.

    I have already relocated the battery and fuse box, and will be posting some pics soon.

    KC
     
  8. Thermactor

    Thermactor New Member

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    Nice list of stuff, I also saw your clublexus post, all is looking good - just a couple things

    1) why the little V-9? I thought its for 4 cylinder cars.
    2) That trans cooler looks a bit smallish, maybe its just fooling me - if you're planning on boosting daily I'd use that cooler in the power steering and get a really beefy AT cooler and an oil cooler :)
     
  9. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Quote from Vortech's website..."The V-9 Series is ideal for applications where space around the engine is a consideration, as with GM F-Body and Sport Compact vehicles. Designed for engines ranging in size from 1.2L to 6.0L."

    Some reasons for the V-9 choice.
    Was on ebay for cheap, jumped on it.
    I am hoping the small size will make installation a little easier.
    The small size, and the inlet to outlet ratio should make for a quick spool.
    I am trying to stay on the safe side of things.

    The trans cooler is more for the tourqe converter. I am not really convinved it is needed at all, there is one already built into the radiator. Also, installing a huge cooler may actually cool the fluid down too much. There is an optimal temp range, too cool can be just as harmful as too hot.

    Thanks for the reply, all feedback is wanted.

    KC
     
  10. Lextreme

    Lextreme Just call me "Lex"

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    KC,

    You gotta becareful on the head unit. Don't believe everything you read. Rely on people with experience. You have to consider other factors like crank pulley size, compression, exhaust flow, supercharger pulley and other factors.
     
  11. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Battery Relocation 1

    Ok guys, this is my first write up of any kind, so please be nice!

    This, IMO, is the first (and a very important) step to fitting a vortech.

    Note that most of the wire in the pictures is the 5gauge wire I had installed previously for my amp, not the 2 gauge for the battery.

    1. Remove battery and battery tray. 10mm to remove both.
    [​IMG]

    2. I fed the wire through this hole.
    [​IMG]

    3.Removed fender liner to gain access to the firewall grommet.
    [​IMG]

    4. Inside picture of firewall grommet.
    [​IMG]

    5. Remove back seat. Pull up on both sides of bottom cushion. Three 12mm bolts holding in backrest. Push backrest up to release.
    [​IMG]

    6. Remove door sill trim. This part is clipped on.
    [​IMG]

    7. This is the grommet I ran the wire through, into the trunk.
    [​IMG]

    8. Remove all trunk interior. No tools needed. The arrow is pointing to the other side of the grommet in the picture above.
    [​IMG]

    9. This is one of the massive grounding posts I ordered from cardomain. I used one for the battery and one for my amp on the other side of the trunk. I will at some point use one under the hood also.
    [​IMG]

    10. Remove paint for installation of ground post. Make sure to find a flat spot so that the post will have maximum contact to the body.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Battery Relocation 2

    11. Installed post with self tapping screws. Painted with battery protector paint. Installed wire to post.

    [​IMG]

    12. I modified the stock battery tray and screwed it to the floor.
    [​IMG]

    13. Screwed the battery box to the battery tray.
    [​IMG]

    14. Picture of battery box installed. Used 150amp automotive circuit braker. The second wire is going to my amp and has a 100amp fuse. I know it looks kind of sloppy, I will clean it up later.
    [​IMG]

    15. This is not a good picture for showing the junction block. But, I used a junction block to connect the front and rear wiring. The battery cable is on one side. The factory starter cable and the power line to the fuse box is on the other side. Can't see it in the picture, but I cleaned up and bolted the stock ground wire to the body for now. I will likely move some of this stuff up front around after I have the blower and the bracket in hand and I can see what can go where.
    [​IMG]

    That is about it for the relocation part. I will post pics of how I turned the fuse box later. I need to get to bed.

    Working great so far BTW. Drove around for a while to relearn the ECU.

    KC
     
  13. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Lex,

    I think the V-9 will be fine. It may not move as much air as the v-1 or the v-2, but I'm ok with that. Worse come to worse, I get bored and by a bigger blower later.:wink:

    BTW, do you know what the stock, unported heads and intake manifold can flow in CFM's. I would doubt that it is more than the 725CFM rating of the V-9 F-trim. There's not much point in blowing more air than the engine can actually inhale.

    KC
     

    Attached Files:

  14. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    Congrats on your success, the writeup and the detailed pics. Watch all your connections and tweak them up again after a month or so. Connections in any new electrical installation tend to loosen up, especially those carrying lots of current.
     
  15. Blizzy

    Blizzy New Member

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    Khris-

    Man, you are moving along so nicely. I am going to have to hit you up for some information on this battery relocation as I have promised I would for the past few weeks.

    The install looks really amazing.

    In regard to the V9 being too small, I definitely have to agree with you that it will work. I have investigated set-up upon set-up in the Corvette, Camaro, and Mustang forums.

    I have chose to switch my thinking from the Powerdyne to the Novi1000 from Paxton. The Novi1000 flows all of 850 CFM (not much more than your V9 at 725), but it still has dozens of those larger displacement American V8's into the 11's.

    For the stock block, I think the smaller charger is actually preferred for its response and flow limitation. With the V9, you are assured of not out-blowing your bottom end, which is nice security. Plus, that boost in midrange with the smaller charger will fill in that midrange gap that is lacking with the 1UZ.

    Check out this article. It claims that the Novi 1000 (850 CFM) reached boost 400rpm sooner than the Novi 2000 (1400 CFM). The article also suggests the 1000 for the DOHC Cobra 4.6L to fill in that midrange gap. On the other hand, the larger charger is recommended for the SOHC GT Mustang.

    I have seen C5 Vettes blowing 10psi through the V9 on their 6L V8's. At 4L, I am sure the 1UZ can hold suit and blow 10psi of its own without choking the blower.
     
  16. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Thanks.

    Will keep an eye on the connections, they are all easily accesible.

    When I got to work today, I used my DVOM to check voltage with the car running. I have 14.07 volts at the battery and at the power and ground wires under the hood. Alternator charging good and there is no voltage drop.

    KC
     
  17. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Thanks for the kind words Blizzy.

    Happy to answer any questions!

    KC
     
  18. kc95sc400

    kc95sc400 New Member

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    Turning the fuse box

    Disclaimer…

    As a professional technician, I advise against screwing around with a vehicles electrical system in this manner. It is, IMO, kinda shady.

    As a gearhead, SUPERCHARGE ME!!!!

    I will share my pics and try to explain what I did, but in the end, anyone who does this will probably do it a little differently.

    1. Remove two 10mm studs. Remove 12mm bolt holding the power line from battery. Remove the harness retainer clip that holds the wiring to the fuse box.
    [​IMG]

    2. The fuse holders and wiring lift right out. There is a plug that will need to be disconnected under the block. The bottom half of the plug that remains will need to be removed from the bottom box. This is just a ground loop, after removing from bottom half of box, plug it back in and secure to the harness. There are two 10mm bolts holding in the bottom half of the fuse box.
    [​IMG]

    3. I cut some of the bottom box out, test fitted, cut, untill I has somewhat happy with it. I also cut a hole to allow the harness to go into the box at a different location than intended.
    [​IMG]

    4. Note that the washer tank filler neck was relocated some. Also, in the area of the arrow, there is a body ground worth cleaning.
    [​IMG]

    5. This is hard to explain, but I'll try. The top fuse box cover has the two plastic knobs that secure it to the fuse block. Those two plastic knobs screw into the long 10mm studs removed earlier. Those 10mm studs screw into the bottom part of the fuse box. Well, since much of the bottom half of the fuse box has been removed, the stud on one side has nowhere to bolt to. I solved this by putting the stud in the correct location and used a 10mm bolt to secure it to the fuse block.
    [​IMG]

    6. This is an installed picture. After I was happy with the fit, I shoved a peice of cardboard into the big gaping hole in the bottom part of the box to protect the wiring from contacting the body. I will later use some high density foam to cover the hole. I used a tie wrap to secure the bottom box to the wiring harness that runs along the fender. Cut a notch in the top box to allow it to fit over the tie wrap.
    [​IMG]

    I will likely fuss over the fuse box more once I have the bracket and know what can go where.

    Well, thats all for now.

    Later,

    KC
     
  19. Lextreme

    Lextreme Just call me "Lex"

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    Nice work.... keep it up...
     
  20. Lextreme

    Lextreme Just call me "Lex"

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    KC,

    Are you going to use intercooler?
    Here was my LS400 Intercooler:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Here is my friend's SC400 Intercooler:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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