FI Reliability

Discussion in 'Engine Modifications (Members Only)' started by 1uzSoup, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. 1uzSoup

    1uzSoup New Member

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    Hi all, first post here but i've been reading for a while soaking in as much information as i can (this place is a great resource).

    I'm planning on doing a 1uz supra swap later this year and could not seem to find a definitive answer to my question.

    I'm looking for around 550-600 RWHP, without compromising reliability (more than a rebuild every few years obviously). Is the block strong enough to hold this, assuming i'm forking out on quality parts such as forged internals?

    The threads i found were usually people asking about stock engines, but i'm intending to spare no expense on this. Just want to know my goals are realistic and achievable before i start, would love to hear from anyone who's got their own built turbo 1uz and how reliable it has proven!

    Would also love to hear how "streetable" a turbo 1uz can be at this power level, i'm coming from dailying a skyline GTR so i'm used to the power, but i'm quite excited for the different type of delivery due to v8.

    Thanks!
     
  2. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome - you'll probably receive some useful feedback from the guys in Oz as they've had more real world experience with high power 1UZ's than the rest of us.

    The block is strong and should support the power levels you want w/o any problems; head lifting can be an issue at high boost, however.

    Getting rid of the heat (think BIG radiator), and keeping the turbos from cooking everything around them will be critical to your success, however. This has been a common issue with 1UZ conversions.

    Just a suggestion, based on hindsight :) If I were you, I'd consider getting a box stock 1UZ and put it in your car and get it running and sorted, then build up another one on the side with all your go-fast stuff. This will enable you to work through some of the mounting/interface/tuning issues. A stock 1UZ is a much simpler beast than a twin turbo 1UZ, but it would at least give you a head start.

    Also, if you're going to do a "spare no expense build" of the turbo 1UZ with all new internals, I'd also recommend you try to break it in on an engine dyno if you have one available nearby. I had a $20K 2JZ-GTE engine build ruined because the tuner was too careless with his initial ECU maps, so now I've gone to the extreme and broken in new 1UZ builds by using a Holley carb and a Ford EDIS ignition.
     
  3. 1uzSoup

    1uzSoup New Member

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    Thanks for the advice and that's actually my plan to drive it for a few months stock and try it out (they're 800 bucks here) while i have one built up.
    I'm not really after making the car some dyno queen monster, it's more of a GT car for road trips (thus my focus on reliability because i don't wanna get stuck in the bush haha) but i don't think i can bear having less power now i've gotten used to dailying big power :)

    Does high boost mean something way beyond the 600hp or so i'm looking to have (and thus won't apply to me because i don't really plan on going that crazy)?
     
  4. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    Soup, I had my heads lift at 21 PSI of supercharged boost.

    Also, would you please fill out your profile a little more, so others near you can better assist?
     
  5. 1uzSoup

    1uzSoup New Member

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    Damn, what kind of power was it making at 21psi? Is this countered with a quality gasket and ARP studs? Just want to do this build under the principle of "do it once do it right".
    Added my location incase any aussies want to lend their advice and experiences, would be much appreciated :)

    Would water cooling be a viable solution to the heat problem? I'm ok with filling up a little tank of water if that's all it takes to maintain (after being set up of course) but i've never done such a thing, is it viable for a GT street car?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  6. Zuffen

    Zuffen Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I had 600hp from my 1UZ.

    21.5psi, the best of everything I could get. $45,000 later it was running and using 45l/100k of Premium fuel.

    Sold it for 10% of cost and dropped a stock 1UZ in and whilst it isn't a beast anymore I can drive from Sydney to Qld without stopping ever 150klm!

    Big power and reliability really don't belong in the same sentence.

    I lifted a set of heads at 21.5 and was using ARP studs and Cometic gaskets.
     
  7. 1uzSoup

    1uzSoup New Member

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    Cheers, was that supercharged? 45l/100 sounds crazy, my gtr won't drink that much at full throttle!
    I was going to have my tuner set me up 2 tunes though, one more moderate for crusing around and then when i want to have some fun i can flick the switch and go over to the 600hp tune.

    Is there a particular reason the heads lift around that psi?
     
  8. Zuffen

    Zuffen Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It was supercharged and had a W2W intercooler that cost a small fortune!

    Yeah, 45l/100 was pretty scary with an 80litre tank.

    I don't think I would risk the engine running 2 tunes.

    No idea why the heads lifted. The ARP's should have held it down but they didn't.

    John C had the same problem at the same psi. I'm pretty sure he was running the same Opcon blower but no intercooling.
     
  9. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    Same Opcon blower as Rod, but instead of an intercooler, I was injecting methanol upstream of the blower for charge air cooling. I too had ARP studs and Cometic head gaskets. I think my issue may have been one of detonation, as we were dancing pretty close to the danger zone with ignition timing, trying to squeeze more HP out of the engine.

    At 21 psi we were making only 498 BHP on an engine dyno with 31 degrees of advance, but we were shooting beautiful blue flames out the exhaust and even blew the exhaust off the system at one point. That should have been a clue that our cam timing was off. Apparently the machine shop that prepped the heads & decks took so much material off both surfaces that the cam timing changed drastically when I installed a stock timing belt. Although my buddy who was the dyno operator & I both thought it was unusual that the timing belt fit loosely, we "fixed" it with a shim on the tensioner, but didn't think to check the cam timing itself. Afterward, we found it was way off.....

    So another tip - on a DOHC engine, if you take material off the heads & decks, make sure you have adjustable timing gears on the cams to compensate! This is especially so on an engine like the 1UZ which uses a single timing belt for both banks.
     
  10. 1uzSoup

    1uzSoup New Member

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    Hmm, i was considering turbo over supercharger (which should be kinder on fuel when cruising) and a beefy intercooler. I'm wondering if water injection might have kept things cool and thus less stress (and chance of things going pop).
     
  11. gloverman

    gloverman Well-Known Member

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    I built a hiace van for a mate a couple of years ago now. Twin turbo , stock bottom end(secondhand 130000km) , reground cams , slightly ported heads running 500rwhp with 15psi. Same fuel economy as when it was NA when driven normally. Half the fuel economy when abused.
     
  12. Frank833

    Frank833 New Member

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    With a turbo, two tunes is generally a good idea as you can run lower boost on your daily tune.

    That way you can use cheap gas on your daily tune and higher octane fuel with your high hp tune.

    That’s one of the advantages of turbo over supercharging.
     
  13. Zuffen

    Zuffen Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I failed to mention I also used water/meth injection on my engine to try and get the most out of it.

    I feel fuel is so cheap (compared to engines) that I would always use the best available and if that wasn't available I wouldn't drive the car.

    Cost cutting cost engines.
     
  14. Frank Clark

    Frank Clark Member

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    Rod,

    I think we have a different idea of cheap and expensive fuel. Here in the US, up till recently your choices were generally pump gas up to 93 octane for about $3/gallon or race gas by the barrel at about $12/gallon (or Methanol at $3.50/gallon). I expect $12/gallon is expensive in most anyone's budget for a street car. And of course you can't drive to far from home if you are buying fuel by the barrel.

    Thankfully now we have E85 at the pump (although it's actually 51-83% ethanol and varies by area and time of year) in most big cities. There are apps to help you find stations with E85 so you can travel on it if you plan carefully. It's not cheaper to run E85 (over premium), but it's in the same ballpark. And don't get me started on the political battle over E85. But we do have a daily driver Lotus in the house that makes 550hp with only Pistons/Rod Bolts/ECU/Turbo/Clutch & E85. You can see all sorts of wild street cars filling up at the E85 pump at the local grocery store!

    But it's much better to be able to use the unleaded premium when needed and turn down the boost/timing to keep it safe.

    I've put a flex fuel sensor on my 1UZ so once the maps are setup it's automatic. And the dash can display the Ethanol content.

    BTW, US octane ratings are done differently than AUS and EU. If I remember correctly our 93 is equivalent to 98 in the EU.

    Frank
     

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