Standalone ECU 1UZFE 36-1 Trigger Wheel and Megasquirt
- Thread starter skid
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Haven't had mine apart yet to look so appreciate it. Can you please elaborate a bit on the 12 tooth 'engine cycle' set up? Does it have a tooth missing to know it's TDC or other degree position?
Obviously the later crank wheel would be in theory preferable though still checking with the MS rep here in the UK on set up with timing wheels plus a few other variables.
Cheers
Mark
Do a search on msefi.com . There is a guy that has one running with the dual dissy setup. It has three triggers. The edis setup is a bit easier though. I'm getting ready to do another one for a friend that will not use edis or dissy's
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Mark, there's 12 physical teeth on the early wheels, so it's a 24 tooth "engine cycle" setup. Don't know about its compatibility with MS.
I've been curious if the later OBDII/VVTi motors' crank wheel would fit on the early models. The later models have a "34 teeth, with 2 teeth missing" setup. Should improve the resolution of both ignition and injection timing with standalone EMS's.
John
I've been curious if the later OBDII/VVTi motors' crank wheel would fit on the early models. The later models have a "34 teeth, with 2 teeth missing" setup. Should improve the resolution of both ignition and injection timing with standalone EMS's.
John
Thanks John for the quick reply.cribbj said:
Haven't had mine apart yet to look so appreciate it. Can you please elaborate a bit on the 12 tooth 'engine cycle' set up? Does it have a tooth missing to know it's TDC or other degree position?
Obviously the later crank wheel would be in theory preferable though still checking with the MS rep here in the UK on set up with timing wheels plus a few other variables.
Cheers
Mark
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When you setup an EMS, sometimes it wants to know how many teeth there are on the trigger wheel for an "engine cycle", not how many "physical teeth" there are on it.
So although the crank wheel has 12 physical teeth on it, there would be 24 teeth for the engine cycle, because the crank would turn two full revolutions to complete its 4 stroke/cycle for all 8 cylinders.
I suppose it's done this way because some may try to setup the EMS using only a cam mounted trigger wheel, so if a cam trigger wheel had 12 physical teeth, then it would also have 12 engine cycle teeth.
Not sure why Toyota did the missing teeth on the crank wheel, because they still use a cam trigger to signal TDC for #1, so the missing teeth aren't necessary. Maybe they're experimenting, to see if they really need the cam trigger?
So although the crank wheel has 12 physical teeth on it, there would be 24 teeth for the engine cycle, because the crank would turn two full revolutions to complete its 4 stroke/cycle for all 8 cylinders.
I suppose it's done this way because some may try to setup the EMS using only a cam mounted trigger wheel, so if a cam trigger wheel had 12 physical teeth, then it would also have 12 engine cycle teeth.
Not sure why Toyota did the missing teeth on the crank wheel, because they still use a cam trigger to signal TDC for #1, so the missing teeth aren't necessary. Maybe they're experimenting, to see if they really need the cam trigger?
MaxPower
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Often manufactures use both cam triggers and missing teeth as an extra check that the ECU/Ignition module is in sync with the engine at all times. If it detects an error it can cut fuel and ignition quicker than could be done with just the one method. Some Ford EDIS use this method on fairly current models, AU Falcon is one example in OZ it uses 36-1 plus a CID (Cylinder ID) sensor. Not sure on the current BA/BF falcon though.
turboandrew
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Perhaps if the cam sensor goes out, it can still run with missing tooth crank sensor, but in batch fire / watse fire. Just another way Toyota is looking out for us I guess..
John, do you have the AEM setup for the missing tooth motors?
John, do you have the AEM setup for the missing tooth motors?
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Andrew, I just have the cal file that Mitch @ AEM modified for the 1UZ with a 12 tooth wheel. Might be interesting to see how it compares with some of the Honda 36-2 cal files to see if it could be modified for the later wheel. Are you getting close to cranking your project?
Anyone know if Max (RedSupra) ever finished his? Haven't heard from him lately.
John
Anyone know if Max (RedSupra) ever finished his? Haven't heard from him lately.
John
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Mark, no the early motor has an evenly spaced 12 tooth crank wheel - there's no missing teeth. It gets its #1 TDC trigger from a set of cam triggers which generate a single pulse (from each bank) for every cam rotation (every two crank rotations).
Have a look at this thread and you'll see how it works for both the ignition and the injection timing: http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5920
John
Have a look at this thread and you'll see how it works for both the ignition and the injection timing: http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5920
John
elhsupra
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http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/wheel2.html
24 tooth Ne cam signal = 12 tooth Ne crank signal
24 tooth Ne cam signal = 12 tooth Ne crank signal
Thanks John and elhsupra
I'm learning fast!
Was confused how MS would pick up it's reference point if there was not a missing tooth but the cam sensor has answered that.
Out of interest is the crank sensor on the 1UZ a 'VR' sensor ? I thought ta VR sensor could only pick up the missing tooth (if there) but if they're accurate to log every tooth passing then that sounds good.
Reading the MS link as I understand it should be able to use the crank and cam sensors though the write up on 'tuning' the signal to get a nice clean square wave in to MS has lost me for now.......
Onwards and upwards!
Cheers
Mark
I'm learning fast!
Was confused how MS would pick up it's reference point if there was not a missing tooth but the cam sensor has answered that.
Out of interest is the crank sensor on the 1UZ a 'VR' sensor ? I thought ta VR sensor could only pick up the missing tooth (if there) but if they're accurate to log every tooth passing then that sounds good.
Reading the MS link as I understand it should be able to use the crank and cam sensors though the write up on 'tuning' the signal to get a nice clean square wave in to MS has lost me for now.......
Onwards and upwards!
Cheers
Mark
If you want to use a megasquirt,then there is a definite advantage to using the later wheel. You can either weld up an extra tooth like I did, and use ford edis components for spark, or leave it as a 36-2 , and use the tooth decoder setup. You could also just mount a simple 8-1 wheel.. That is the minimun required for a v8. I did a 4-1 on a 4 cylinder a while back, and it worked great. The upside to edis is simplicity, The down side is no rev limiter.Red Supra said:
Can you elaborate?
Does the later vvti 36-2 wheel bolt directly into the earlier 1UZ? Any other mods other than welding in the extra tooth? Also will the earlier crank sensor be good and accurate enough to read the newer now 36-1 wheel?
If you changed the sensor, how and what with?
Cheers
Mark
Does the later vvti 36-2 wheel bolt directly into the earlier 1UZ? Any other mods other than welding in the extra tooth? Also will the earlier crank sensor be good and accurate enough to read the newer now 36-1 wheel?
If you changed the sensor, how and what with?
Cheers
Mark
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Mark, not to speak for Toy4me, but he & I were emailing recently on this topic as I was interested in a cheap standalone ignition for the 1UZ for breakin purposes only.
The mods necessary for the later 36-2 trigger wheel to work with the Ford EDIS8 system are:
1. Weld a tooth onto the wheel to make it a 36-1 system (EDIS8 works only with a 36-1 trigger wheel)
2. Cut a new keyway into the wheel so the missing tooth is 50 degrees from the pickup when #1 is at TDC.
EDIS8 also requires either a Megasquirt or the Megajolt Jr to generate a SAW command to tell it what timing to use. Otherwise it will work only in "limp home" mode of 10 degrees.
For my temporary needs, the mods to the Toyota trigger wheel are probably a bit more involved than simply adapting a 36-1 wheel temporarily to the motor, then removing it when I'm done, so I'll probably opt for this method.
The EDIS8 module and (2) coilpacks can be purchased for $100 or so on eBay, and a fully wired MJLJ module for less than $200, then it's just the trigger wheel modification, or fitting a dedicated 36-1 wheel to the motor. I would guess for less than $400 to $500 one could have a fully functioning crank triggered, standalone ignition for the 1UZ.
Here's a post with a good description of the system: MegaJolt LiteJR IN STOCK! | TurboMinis
Also, it looks like this guy has quite a range of 36-1 trigger wheels available: Trigger-Wheels
The mods necessary for the later 36-2 trigger wheel to work with the Ford EDIS8 system are:
1. Weld a tooth onto the wheel to make it a 36-1 system (EDIS8 works only with a 36-1 trigger wheel)
2. Cut a new keyway into the wheel so the missing tooth is 50 degrees from the pickup when #1 is at TDC.
EDIS8 also requires either a Megasquirt or the Megajolt Jr to generate a SAW command to tell it what timing to use. Otherwise it will work only in "limp home" mode of 10 degrees.
For my temporary needs, the mods to the Toyota trigger wheel are probably a bit more involved than simply adapting a 36-1 wheel temporarily to the motor, then removing it when I'm done, so I'll probably opt for this method.
The EDIS8 module and (2) coilpacks can be purchased for $100 or so on eBay, and a fully wired MJLJ module for less than $200, then it's just the trigger wheel modification, or fitting a dedicated 36-1 wheel to the motor. I would guess for less than $400 to $500 one could have a fully functioning crank triggered, standalone ignition for the 1UZ.
Here's a post with a good description of the system: MegaJolt LiteJR IN STOCK! | TurboMinis
Also, it looks like this guy has quite a range of 36-1 trigger wheels available: Trigger-Wheels
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John,
Cheers, as helpful as ever!
Pretty sure I'm going MS with Edis8 and I've already researched some of the prices. Can you also believe that the guy who officially imports MS into the UK lives about 10 miles from me!!!!!!! I had a beer with him last week to explain a few elementy parts to me and to see if he thought I was competent enough to have a go.
He doesn't see it a problem and he's offered to test one if I do it and offered to help out if I got stuck. Oh, and I found a 1UZ here for £250, about $400 and persauded him to buy it to have a play. Not bad eh??? ha ha
I've wrote the post above as had no idea what the later trigger wheel dimensions were and if possible wanted to avoid an external wheel and sensor mount. So thanks for your help and info, it's very helpful. It might also be worthwhile getting the later wheels specific dimensions and actually getting a new one laser cut with the extra tooth and right key way. Might be a nice offer for members if it's cheap enough.
The only final question which I'm not sure if you can clarify, is can the early 1UZ crank sensor actually read a 36-1 tooth wheel effectively or will it need replacing??? Worse case I can go back to a cam sensor but would prefer to have just the single crank sensor.
Also out of interest what ignition set up are you using if you want EDIS as a temp solution for running in???
Cheers
Mark
Cheers, as helpful as ever!
Pretty sure I'm going MS with Edis8 and I've already researched some of the prices. Can you also believe that the guy who officially imports MS into the UK lives about 10 miles from me!!!!!!! I had a beer with him last week to explain a few elementy parts to me and to see if he thought I was competent enough to have a go.
He doesn't see it a problem and he's offered to test one if I do it and offered to help out if I got stuck. Oh, and I found a 1UZ here for £250, about $400 and persauded him to buy it to have a play. Not bad eh??? ha ha
I've wrote the post above as had no idea what the later trigger wheel dimensions were and if possible wanted to avoid an external wheel and sensor mount. So thanks for your help and info, it's very helpful. It might also be worthwhile getting the later wheels specific dimensions and actually getting a new one laser cut with the extra tooth and right key way. Might be a nice offer for members if it's cheap enough.
The only final question which I'm not sure if you can clarify, is can the early 1UZ crank sensor actually read a 36-1 tooth wheel effectively or will it need replacing??? Worse case I can go back to a cam sensor but would prefer to have just the single crank sensor.
Also out of interest what ignition set up are you using if you want EDIS as a temp solution for running in???
Cheers
Mark
Sorry, I don't know if the vvti wheel will bolt on the earlier 1uz. I have found on several different engines that the vr sensors are usually compatible with edis. The motor I used was the marine one .It has vvt heads and early strong 1uz rods.skid said:
adxx
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Hi
I began looking at MegaSquirt recently. And it appears to me that the task is more straight-forward than seemed before.
I own early Crown UZ, so it is 12 teeth on crank (24 per cycle) and 1 at cam each head. Coupling the stuff together will give me two triges, one - per crank revlutions, one - per crank position. With the ability MS to use two inputs seems quite simple... I can even use stock wiring loom (I think). I will have to buy couple of VF921 igniters (or may be even use standard ones), and that seems all. What do you think?
What I like is that I don't have to play with all these EDIS stuff and 36-1 wheel.
I began looking at MegaSquirt recently. And it appears to me that the task is more straight-forward than seemed before.
I own early Crown UZ, so it is 12 teeth on crank (24 per cycle) and 1 at cam each head. Coupling the stuff together will give me two triges, one - per crank revlutions, one - per crank position. With the ability MS to use two inputs seems quite simple... I can even use stock wiring loom (I think). I will have to buy couple of VF921 igniters (or may be even use standard ones), and that seems all. What do you think?
What I like is that I don't have to play with all these EDIS stuff and 36-1 wheel.
Do a search on msefi.com . There is a guy that has one running with the dual dissy setup. It has three triggers. The edis setup is a bit easier though. I'm getting ready to do another one for a friend that will not use edis or dissy's
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