1UZ-FE/w58 into an Alfa Romeo Giulietta.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BigKriss, May 15, 2010.

  1. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Well, I have been holding off posting about this for some time while I have been sourcing all sorts of stuff for my project.
    Unfortunately I have some questions that need answers to .This will determine my direction of the build hereon forward.

    I have sourced and bought a 1996 front sump 1UZ motor. It has 91 000km on her and is in superb condition. I have bench started her , all pressures and temps are spot on. The motor was sourced from Japan directly.
    I will be using a local South African Lexus V8 specific engine management system, map based and specifically designed to control all aspects of the engine and auto box.
    I will not be using the auto box though and have opted for the venerable w58 Supra box with the 0.78 odd final fifth ratio.
    I manged to source cad drawings for the w58 to U1 auto bell housing adapter for the princely sum of 20US.
    It is being made as I type this.

    Some questions to the embers here if you guys don`t mind. I have searched here no for the last two or so weeks and have not really managed to find specific answers yet.

    Firstly I am thinking of a single turbo setup for the stock engine AS IS.
    I do not want to open the engine for any reason , not even to change the head gaskets.
    Will the engine be capable of withstanding boost pressures of about 5 psi on a stock engine ?
    Secondly are the standard pistons up to the task on a well tuned setup ? Obviously detonation and stuff like that will destroy them in seconds.
    Why I ask is that we have a million "tuners" here and everyone has his own opinion as to this.I tend to not listen to these guys and would prefer solid info from you guys.
    Basically , will the engine handle 4 to 5 psi boost with good inter cooling with the std 10:1 cr , short duration smog cams and std. head gaskets ?

    Secondly will the w58 gearbox handle the torque of such an engine reliably ? Gearboxes are extremely strong components but I have seen a lot of internet topics where the w58 box is slated as a bit of a girl when it comes to torque from a turbo 1UZ.

    Thanks guys.
    BK.
     
  2. cribbj

    cribbj "Supra" Moderator Staff Member

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    BK, a '96 USDM (US Domestic Market) would have had 10.4:1 compression, and the wimpy rods. Not the best setup if you're turbo'ing it. The pre-'95 motors have lower compression (10:1) and beefier rods, so are better for forced induction.

    JustenGT8 had one of these early motors and flogged it for years with a twin turbo setup, under race conditions, so they're stout. He did not open the motor to upgrade anything.

    If it can be proven that you indeed have only 10:1 compression, then I'd say let 'er rip as is.

    If you have the high compression motor, and the wimpy rods, just make sure you have enough fuel and octane in your setup that leanness and det aren't issues.
     
  3. JustenGT8

    JustenGT8 New Member

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    happy to run you thru what i did....on my street/track car ;)
     
  4. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Mmmm...yes, it does have the wimpy sintered metal rods. I pulled the sump this morning, was terribly disappointed at the rods but extremely impressed with the slipper skirt pistons !
    Now from BMW experience the sintered rods are slightly stronger than "conventional" forgings but when they do let go its proper ! No bendy stuff, rather like pieces all over the show.
    I had read that Justin had run his turbo`ed in stock form which is amazing.The fact that his motor lasted so long and watching the vids of his car is astonishing !

    So, thats it for this particular project, N/A it will remain until another motor can be sourced.
    Thanks for the feedback bud.
     
  5. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Just ! Posted a millisecond before me.I would greatly appreciate any running through you would care to share. The second "correct" engine may be sourced as soon as Monday. They`re as cheap as chips over here..
     
  6. JustenGT8

    JustenGT8 New Member

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    The early engines are tough as nails....i ran mine at 320rwkw for pretty well 5 years straight with the only exception being when i dialed it up to 400rwkw (16psi) or ran it twin charged with the supercharger as well (25psi) :)

    I wouldn't recommend either of the later for long...they are tough but not supernatural :)

    The stock ignition is strong so you can leave that alone but definitely needs a solid fuel system, top shelf ECU (i run an Autronic SM2) and good intercooling. I run a big FMIC (600x300x100mm) and also water injection (swear by this). A careful, but far from conservative, tune and much wheel spinning mayhem to enjoy :)

    The power curve isn't great, rolling over quite early, but still plenty of torque to exploit and will make for a quick little Alfa.

    I'm about to swap to E85 for the next engine and would recommend this to make things even safer for the engine (runs cooler and virtually det resistant).

    At a mild 6psi (mine made 265rwkw on 6.5psi) it'll run forever ;)
     
  7. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Cheers bud, solid info there, thanks. Just phoned a mate and he has the earlier "big rod" engine for me.. We are on again. The little Alfa weighs 1140 kg but with all of this Im probably heading towards 1200/1250 kg,s.

    Ok, you have lost me a little here-E85 ? :D
     
  8. XR8tt

    XR8tt Moderator

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    85 % ethanol...
     
  9. Toybox

    Toybox New Member

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    BigKriss,

    Out of interest which management are you gonna use? Spitronics?
     
  10. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Thanks Xr..We dont have stuff like that here, hence the blank stare..:)

    Tb, yes, for now. It seems rather good at controlling the Lexus V8 motor.I put the engine on a stand and wired all up and bang ! She burst into life immediately.
    Mate did a conversion into a Landy and it was easy as pie.
    I have a Haltech E11 on standby but do not see anything wrong with the Spit. I have played with almost everything ever made ...The simplicity of Dicktator and Spit does it for me. Ill see what Spit can do with the interpolation of input data.Thats where the boys are separated from the men..
    Pop by when you in Edenvale next, Greenstone Auto Body, Van Riebeeck Ave, 155.:) Project is being built there.
     
  11. Toybox

    Toybox New Member

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    Will do my very best to make a turn on Tuesday when I'm in Jozi...

    I'm using a Spits for my engine and autobox and it was a piece of cake.

    Used them a couple times on Toy 4y fuel injection conversions and their backup support is second to none. Never a days trouble after many an overland trip through southern Africa with the elements giving it their all...
     
  12. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Well,things are progressing fast ! Just purchased the Howe 82870 slave/throwout bearing setup from Summit Racing !
    Cheapest available so far and used by members right here.It must be good !
     
  13. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    My first setback. Remove the sump this morning and find a cotter/valve retainer in the sump.Only one. When we started her on the bench she ran fine, firing on all 8 and as smooth as a babies backside.

    I am now wondering where this retainer could come from.Could the engine have been repaired previously and it dropped in ? Who knows.I just cannot take the chance here so Ill be picking up a second engine tomorrow and keep this as a spare.

    You guys in the know, can the retainer come adrift and migrate to the sump without damaging anything ? My experience says no. At best you are going to hear noises and even some misfiring at some stage..
     
  14. JustenGT8

    JustenGT8 New Member

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    whip the cam covers off, you'll know in 20 minutes :)

    I would have thought that a missing retainer would mean a dropped valve? must be hanging on by a thread with the single collet. I have never seen or heard of that before, weird?
     
  15. Zuffen

    Zuffen Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The retainer can drop into the sump and not damage anything.

    I once dropped a nut off a head stud down and oil return and had to remove the sump to get it back!

    The engine could have had new valve seals installed and a retainer was dropped and replaced by another?

    If it's had seals it would nice to keep it as a spare engine.
     
  16. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Just, my thoughts exactly.It would not last long while running .We had her running for over an hour on the bench and my cretinous mate revved her up to rev limit once .This brought a seriously raised eyebrow from me but if it was going to drop the valve, that is when she should have done so.

    Rod, the engine has done 91 000km. It is barely run in. I will keep it and prep it for a Justin replica here.;)
    I am really leaning towards this being a spare retainer in the sump. Ill pull the covers ,cams and followers.This will show any canted springs indicating the missing retainer.
    BK.
     
  17. XR8tt

    XR8tt Moderator

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    Nothing happened .. Just check as Justen said...
    I've seen much bigger things in sumps over the years..
    Pushrods to oil pump drives..
     
  18. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    Well, got the replacement engine today-apparently its the "bigrod" one. Ill see tomorrow. Will also run it up on the test bench tomorrow.
    Unfortunately they would not let me buy the "broken" engine as a spare. I did however, get another for half the price although some stuff like alternator and p/s pump are missing. The important bits are there though, including a spare starter motor and plenums...
    They are both 1991 year models.
     
  19. BigKriss

    BigKriss New Member

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    "Bigrod" engine was a total failure. Seized intake cam and spat the belt.Took it back and will be collecting number three today.
    I have earmarked a 2001 year model (if the plug leads are to be believed..) This has the big injectors and slightly different fuel pipes. They come up from the bottom of the engine.
    Will run her up today and see.
     
  20. JBrady

    JBrady Moderator

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    USDM 2001 year is the 4.3 and is skinny rods.

    Last year for the stronger rods is 1994 USDM
     

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