Discussion in 'Alternative Fuel' started by folashade96, Mar 10, 2014.
13 second E85 naturally aspirated 1UZ build possible?
330WHP is around 410FWHP so you're looking to increase the engines output by 160FWHP or 40% and expect to increase the fuel economy by 15MPG or 40% at the same time?
That should be easy to do, NO.
I think you idea of the manual swap and gaining as much power as you claim is your first error.
From there on it multiplies as you starting on a flawed base.
Milling heads on an OHC engine isn't like a pushrod engine. Cam timing will alter as you mill the heads and both heads won't suffer the same movement as the passengers head will see more (apparent) loss of material due to the way the belt runs.
I'd suggest a lot more research here on this Forum and others is in order to see what these engines can and can't do.
Increasing my fuel economy 40% is just a day dream I had.
Maybe 30% is a bit much to say the for the a340e's power loss but I know a manual would lose less power compared to an automatic. Either way a manual is going in the car because I need a new transmission soon and we're doing it for the "why not" aspect of it even if it doesn't gain substantially more power than the a340e.
I'm fairly certain though that running higher compression (high comp pistons/milled heads). BMW M3 E46/E90 engines runs higher 11-12 to 1 compression and are making 100+ hp/liter by revving to 7000-8000 rpm. Of course, this is conservative tuning aswell. I've done some research on the 1UZs and they should be able to go to 6500-7000 without problem, although I'll keep it at 6500 just to be safe. Redoing the exhaust and porting the heads to make sure it breaths that high should help it breath at those engine speeds.
This combination on E85 and 12.5-13.5 to 1 compression should gain an additional 100 crank putting me at 350 crank horsepower over the stock 250 hp in the gen 1 1UZ engines. I'd be perfectly okay with this
As for the belts, I'm well aware of this. Running a smaller belt/increasing tension on the belt tensioner shouldn't be too hard .
If this still isn't enough to let me run 13s in the quarter mile, I can also gut some of my car such as spare tire (didn't come with it), rear seat removal (I never have passengers), aftermarket seats (need/want new seats anyway), cd changer removal (dont use anyway), losing weight myself (solid 20 pound gain assuming i lose weight and not gain muscle ).
if you want some hp and have the fuel economy when you need it, go with nitrous. +100hp if you do it right and go with a wet kit. best part is that you can turn it OFF and make a worry free commute. my 2 cents.
Thanks. I thought about nitrous but that's annoying to get and no one in my family is exactly a "calm driver" when the road gets clear and no one is around which is often whenever we leave city limits which is every few days. I got the idea for high compression and E85 from a post I saw on the "Just Commadore's" forum.
Apparently the guy gained an extra 160 hp/120 Kw from 150kW at the wheels to 270 kW from just 14:1 compression, E85, and cams. From those numbers I'm guessing it was an automatic as the calculation came out to about 250 to 290 at the crank which sounds about right for out engines.
E85 is easy to get where I live so I'm not worried about that. If it does need larger cams to run that high compression even if it's E85, I wouldn't mind so long as the idle isn't ridiculously lopey for daily driving, if I do need a wild cam though, I'll step back compression and settle for whatever power I make.
Really at the end of the day I will settle for an extra 50 to 75 horsepower from just compression and E85. We got this car for nothing and we want to see how much it can take without pulling the engine out of the car. Not the most practical way of getting major power out of a car, I know, but we've had forced induction cars in the past and didn't like them as much. We prefer to have the power where we know we'll have it rather than wait for the full beans.
Keep in mind a set of cams will set you back $2,000.00 so not exactly cheap.
Hi comp pistons will run you around $1000.00 as milling the heads will screw your cam timing up so bad you may find you drop HP.
By the time you throw in machining, gaskets, bearings, porting and a better intake and exhaust the cost will blow out.
What your trying to do will cost a minimum of $10,000 to do properly.
I know I had $5,000 in a supercharged 1UZ!
Also remember you will use around 30% more fuel when running E85.
To suggest an 80% gain with cams, compression and E85 would suggest at least one Manufacturer would produce a car that would take advantage of it.
Think of a Veyron with those mods, it would have a cool 1,800 HP. Not likely.
Would milling the heads really be that bad that I would have to drop in high compression pistons instead? I would think that regardless of whether the heads were milled or I dropped in high compression pistons, it would still have the same valve clearances at top dead center.
Also how badly would cam timing be affected? Is it both the intake and exhaust that need to be changed? Just the intake? Just the exhaust?
I say go ahead and start modding your car one area at a time and you will learn a great deal. We could explain that you will find it unlikely to meet your goals but you will gain an understanding and from that point be able to decide on your next steps.
BTW, the ECU's in these cars have a long history of bad capacitors. That would be a good place to start because as they fail all manner of problems develop.
Once you have spent the countless millions and countless man hours you will come to the same conclusion that BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Bugatti, Pagani and almost every other manufacturer sans Lambo and Ferrari... That turbocharging IS for YOU!!!
You can have your power and your green with a vehicle that can be setup to run BOTH gasoline and E85. Even if you build a NA 4 liter that makes 350hp you will still only have the torque of a 4 liter which even optimized will be MAYBE 85lb/ft per liter or 340 lb/ft and that would be at a fairly high RPM. Turbocharged you can exceed that torque at a LOW RPM and continue to make it across the range.
Heck you can start with a cheapo China made ebay turbo and bolt it to your current engine BEFORE you rebuild.
If you absolutely must have NA you should look at the VVTi engines as their heads flow as well as most ported earlier heads and the intake manifolds are much better.
Easy answer sounds like swapping in a 2.0l TFSI 4cyl motor... more hp and torque than the v8, double it without trouble and better economy to boot... Not like Lexus engineers were leaving a bunch of efficiency on the table to be picked up in the stock config. The Lex is not very mod friendly. Unlike the old days, there are no big easy gains. Cut weight, reduce engine size, direct injection, turbocharge.... My stock block 1.8T makes about as much hp as my 1uZ+the 4age in my race car put together!
What sort of torque figures do you get out of your TFSI?
I would assume it is less than the stock UZ at a much higher RPM making it a bit less than lazy around the streets with a 3400lb car attached to it.
the 2.0TFSI is the new motor... mine is an old 1.8t, not direct injection.. Even my old one makes way more power and torque anywhere in the rev range than an early 1UZ. My lex is down to 3200lb, and my 1.8T Audi is way, way faster. Mine has just bolt-ons (bought new), and makes over 300hp/tq.. Its not built for top end at all. Its got just enough juice to do AWD burnouts. a bit more work can get well over 400hp. For the money, you just can't beat turbo.
Something tells me I'll be kicking and screaming before I give up an NA build. But I know I'll have to give it up sooner or later. Thanks JBrady for reminding me about the ECU capacitors. I took mine to my mechanic to get checked and they're all good.... for now. One thing I won't readily give up is the fact that I do want to run E85 in this car. From what I've been reading, the stock fuel system should be generous on 6 or so pounds of boost on regular gas. But it looks like this is pushing the fuel system to the max? I don't think the fuel system will play too nicely when I ask it to pump 30% more fuel in with E85 under boost. Where would I get bigger injectors that plug and play with the 1UZ?
I just came across this and wondering if you went ahead or abandoned the project?
Did you end up adapting the 300zx trans? If so can you post up some details?
Quite the opposite, I just got even more carried away with the plans. I decided not to do a manual swap because as much as I really want this car to have a manual transmission, I decided not to because I feel it would take something away from this car. But I am still want to pull the trigger on a high compression all motor E85 only build. The only thing stopping me at the moment is the fact that I don't know whether I should do it on the LS400, or sell it and buy something else to keep me from butchering a luxury cruiser to turn into what would essentially become a daily driven dragster (and not even an 11 to 9 second one at that. Although 12-13 does sound pretty impressive).
With what I've learned over the past 2 months about E85 builds, I will probably end up doing the latter and spare the life of this luxury cruiser. I know everyone has suggested Turbocharging, but I've ridden in a few and even if it's mild power, I just don't like how turbos feel.
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